July 04, 2008

Good bye!

Dear readers,

It's been a long journey from my first post to today. My INSEAD saga is over, and with that, as promised, it is time to say 'so long!'

The year has been a tapestry of experiences, and the rewards have far exceeded disappointments. At the end of it all, I made life long friends, learned many new things, had new avenues opened for me, enjoyed a vast range of social activities with diversity that is almost unparalleled (while this is often a cliche, at INSEAD you really need to be here to even understand what it really means), and ended the year with fond memories that will remain. To me, there are no good-byes, in this age and time I will always have the means to be in touch with those that are in touch with me. In a nutshell, INSEAD was a fantastic experience.

The last few days have been incredibly busy with the class ends, assignments, graduation trip, ceremony and I have had no Internet for most of the time. That, coupled with the sweet exhaustion of completing the course meant my "promise of remaining posts" will unfortunately be broken, and allow others to say what I have not. I have had no time to make my customary cartoons, as the friends at Clearadmit blog mused.

With that, I sign off. To you, I wish you great times, successful preparation and admits, and a great career.

As for me, it is time to welcome a new world, new challenges and new excitement.


Good bye!

July 03, 2008

Graduation Ceremony

I've been "detoxed" from the Internet - with no access in the last 9 days! It's finally good to be online today, if only very briefly, before I head out. The graduation ceremony got over today - and with that a wonderful chapter concluded, and opened the road to a new world ahead.

In completely unrelated news - I fell in love with Turkish music, and this song in particular! by Gulben Ergen. Enjoy.

June 23, 2008

End of classes

Today I finished my last class at INSEAD. No more classes. It's been a great journey so far - and it's wrapping up time with a great grad trip.

June 20, 2008

My INSEAD recruitment/placement statistics

Without giving absolute numbers, here is how my recruitment went and what I did.

  1. I did the necessary song-and-dance. I went to most presentations, most cocktails, did whatever coffee-chat interviews I could.
  2. I tailored almost all my covering letters - in the absence of information of who reads it and who does not, I preferred to err on the side of caution. Besides, creating tailored letters also helps to understand the company better.
  3. I had 2 CVs - both had subtle differences in what I highlighted. One was for consulting companies and the other Industry.
My recruitment statistics - all numbers are slightly skewed and not very accurate, so don't get imaginative. Don't conclude anything too hastily.
  1. Almost all my applications were in P4 while interviews went across to P5 as well
  2. I had a 50% call rate from application to interview.
  3. 50% of those that called me for 1st round invited me to the final round
  4. About 45% of those that called me for the final round made an offer
  5. For industry - about 65% of those I applied for called me for 1st round, and about 80% of them converted to 2nd round
  6. For consulting - about 35% called for the 1st round and I had a 67% chance of going to the second round
  7. I withdrew from a couple of final round interviews and also refused couple of first rounds - my % do not adjust for these
  8. I have no good idea why company X shortlisted me and why company Y did not. My background was not a very "straight fit" to strategy consulting. Most of the small/niche consulting companies rejected me without an interview.
  9. I think the timing of our recruitment (July promotion is out of cycle with regular US and 2 year programs so many companies had hired and then maybe went into a scared "wait-and-watch" situation) combined with an awful economic situation made it a lot more stressful than it perhaps is.
  10. If you are from another business school and have been through this, you can compare notes and conclude that I am an idiot, just don't post that as a comment ;) I'm sure there are superstars with 90% success rate from application to offer, I'm not one of them.
  11. Recruiting for what you want takes lot of work.
Overall Possible locations

When I include the offers I have and the offers I might have had and the offers I did not have after final rounds, the locations were (some locations may have occurred twice)

London, New York, Dubai, Amsterdam, Dublin

Offer Locations

London, New York

Type of jobs

Both consulting positions and MBA leadership positions

Interview intensity

Highest Number of interviews before an offer was made - 10 (MBA leadership)
Lowest Number of interviews before an offer was made - 6 (Consulting) + lunch evaluation

Types of interviews

Most were case based, industry always did 1 or 2 competency/motivation interviews, individual case presentation and group presentation.

The offer numbers

Yeah right ;)

For those who might mail me asking questions about specific companies, interview details, offer numbers and so on - I'm sorry but I will not be responding to any of them. If you join a B-school you will get plenty of information from your school.

Oops...too many requests

I've got so many mails asking me to post on a variety of topics and its unlikely I can cover them all. I'll cover a few things and leave the rest to the future bloggers. As one commenter pointed out, it's unusual for a student in a top MBA program to have so much time ;) well, actually, I don't. In a course of 2 years, I've had only 3 long posts that took weeks to compose. The remaining take barely 30 minutes a stretch...so statistically, I really wasn't spending so much time.

Nevertheless, the days are very hectic again as we race to completion and have many social activities to tend to, but I'll do my best before signing off. Today we had the INSEAD Cabaret - it was hugely enjoyable. I'll try getting some pics up sometime later if I can.

June 19, 2008

Blog transition! D-Day beaches at Normandy / Allied Invasion

As part of my transition process, it's time for me to welcome the D'08 blogs. I hope you will find ongoing information there!

D'08 - if anyone of you reads my blog - I'd be happy to link your blog (you do not need to reciprocate) if it is active. I will add the blog list to my lists in a couple of days. It is also time to phase out inactive or previous blogs.

In other news, As part of my travel I recently visited all the D-Day beaches in Normandy (Utah, Omaha, Juno, Sword, Gold). If you have an appreciation for WW II and an interest in history, this tour is a must. A few photos.. the commentary for each photo is below it.


A view of the Omaha Dog Green sector which is the same sector depicted in Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan opening scene. What surprised me was how touristy the beach had become.



Barbed wires on a German bunker/ German bunker and staircase in Point-Du-Hoc which is an astonishingly preserved battle zone with German bunkers, bomb craters, and long range artillery.



Tetrahedrons on the Utah beach, meant to damage water craft incoming on the beaches. Now at display near the solemn Utah beach memorial.

June 16, 2008

Blog statistics/What next?

It's been an interesting journey - this blog now clocks over 10,000 views a month, appears on many meaningful searches, probably has by far the largest number of RSS subscribers for an INSEAD blog, and is about to cross a 100,000 views. Not bad for a INSEAD specific niche blog. If I were from, say, Wharton, I might have had a wider audience.

One would be tempted to see how to further "explode" the audience by widening the range of topics, or rope in other writers etc. But once this journey is over in a few days, it's also perhaps the time to end the blog, remove links to older and redundant blogs, link the "fresh ones" and let the next batch take over. It's always best when said from the perspectives of a current student or an applicant. I have an idea for my next on-line casual/hobby venture and it has nothing to do with an MBA or a personal blog. I doubt anyone is interested in reading my personal stories.

Before I sign off for good in a couple of, if you want to see posts on anything specific, drop a comment. I might! I'm mentioning this right now because longer posts need more time.

June 11, 2008

INSEAD vs. US B-schools / Chicago GSB/Columbia/Darden/Ross/MIT

The official INSEAD 2007 career report is now out, see it here


Here it is - the post to discuss some top US B-schools and INSEAD. Like my FT analysis, this is going to be a rather long post - so if you can't be bothered, just skip it!

This post examines INSEAD vis-a-vis some top US MBA B-schools over a range of typical post-MBA career parameters. The purpose is to show how INSEAD compares to US schools, and to examine some commonly held beliefs. This is NOT about which one is 'superior'. The post is also meant to perhaps give a little more information to potential applicants wondering where to apply and where to study. The post is not so much about INSEAD vs. US B-schools as it is about "INSEAD alongside US B-schools" to give a numbers-driven idea and to answer the question "is your career a disaster if you cannot apply to a US school?"


For the purposes of this discussion, I am keeping Harvard, Wharton and Stanford out of discussion to avoid needless bickering. But if you are curious, you can look at an analysis I made long ago that has Wharton and Stanford in the list alongside INSEAD.


Choosing which B-school to do an MBA is not easy - this leads to a multitude of questions when it comes to decision making time. A lot of people aspire to go to the top MBA schools - and the US news rankings and FT MBA ranking are pretty widely recognized as those that perhaps best reflect the typical top 10-12 schools in the world. In general, US B-schools enjoy a stronger general recognition brand. This is changing, and there are many who are expanding their choice of schools beyond the US borders. So then, if someone wants to do a "world class MBA" outside US, the typical choices have been LBS and INSEAD. When figuring out if INSEAD is a good place to go, there are many doubts, some assumptions, and many blank stares from those who do not know about the school.When trying to research INSEAD and, say, a top US school, applicants face some oft-repeated phrases in forums – here is a sample I’ve seen over the last 1-1 ½ years – especially when the discussions comes between choosing between INSEAD and a top 4-7/10 US school.


  • It is “dumb” to compare to a top US B-school. For e.g. Chicago GSB is way ahead of INSEAD. For many, it's a no contest between applying to any US B-school vs. applying to INSEAD (or LBS, for that matter).

  • INSEAD is very heavily consulting oriented. Most become consultants.

  • "Big 3" consulting numbers are inflated because many are already from those companies.

  • People do not get into PE/VC.

  • Average age in INSEAD is much higher than US B-schools.

  • INSEAD’s Singapore campus is ‘worse’ than France – or, is it bad to go to “INSEAD Singapore”

Each school comes with the burden of perceptions. Sometimes, those perceptions are not questioned and are simply taken as granted. I figured the best way (the way I see it), is to simply put numbers instead of strenuously arguing pros-and-cons. Numbers tell a story behind them, they are a result of many factors, and they make it easy to get a sense of value.

Approach

My approach focuses on the typical MBA aspirant – outliers are not part of this discussion. All description going ahead is about the typical candidate. This post is about you and me – not about the superstar 4.0 GPA with 6 million $ in his account and now wants to do an MBA based on a school’s research output in bio-hazard management and impact on penguins and cares little about a school’s career services. A typical aspirant does an MBA for these popular reasons

  • Better career options – by way of growth or change in line of work, mobility

  • Compensation – 'nuff said

  • Strength of and access to a lifelong network, brand power


Recruitment strength determines where we end up in and with what, and follow closely with the reputation the school has built over years

  • With companies – by quality of recruits, their performance, and interactions with the school

  • With alumni – which is proud of the school, has fond memories, and is willing to help

  • In the press – by way of interaction, ranking, senior executive and CEO interactions

The stronger a school's performance, the better the intake gets, and consequently the better the output as seen by companies. For this reason, the way the students are valued in the job market is often the best indicator of a school's strength. And within that valuation is the perception of brand. My take on brand is that those who matter within corporate circles know the brand, and not your barber’s aunt knowing which school you went to.

With this in mind, the way I went about is to simply pick the latest available career reports and list them across 5 different schools. You could say no pattern is inferable without picking a history of reports - and I'd say that's not very necessary.

Typically these reports do not change drastically year to year (except in very bad or very good years), and wages get adjusted upward at roughly inflation levels. But the reports give a good view of how companies value and take students, who the top employers are, the quality of top employers, how big the school is, what sectors the school is stronger in, diversity of employment/international opportunities and so on - and every such number is a result of a huge number of parameters. I chose Chicago GSB, Columbia, MIT Sloan, Darden and Ross to get a spectrum of choices. Kellogg's career report was hard to use in comparison and I finally dropped it. I chose parameters that are most often quoted and looked at, and a few others to highlight interesting differences between schools.

I used 2007 data from the following sources

  1. Chicago GSB

  2. MIT Sloan

  3. University of Michigan, Ross

  4. University of Virginia, Darden

  5. Columbia

  6. INSEAD

If you find any discrepancy in the data, please let me know. A few notes before you get your cannons out of the barn,

  1. Don’t focus too much on specific numbers which change a bit every year. The idea is to see the entire picture to get a feel, and not kill ourselves on specific single lines.

  2. I was unable to get a clear picture of alumni strength as some schools mix all their programs together and also include their universities and cite that as the number. I need full time MBA alumni numbers.

  3. The reason there is no entry for pre-MBA numbers (GMAT, GPA etc.) is that I’m trying to figure out the post-MBA worth which sort of “packages” all this into an outcome.

So, here they are - Click a graph if you want to see it in a larger size

Very clearly, US schools are highly US centric and it is not surprising. INSEAD, on the other hand, is very international in where the graduates go. The largest % is to UK - about 28%. I could not find data for Darden and Columbia and therefore they are missing (anyone knows?)

Yes, INSEAD is big when compared on an annual class basis. Though if you actually take a specific graduating batch in an year, it would be half of what is shown above. People are often surprised to find how big INSEAD actually is. Even I was, when I first found out :)


Salaries

This is an interesting graph - you can see the sector % spread for INSEAD is actually less varied compared to the others where there are much stronger sector slants. But in 2008 I think we will see a drop in Finance (for INSEAD at least) given that we were unfortunate to be graduating in an absolutely awful economic conditions. Big-3 => McKinsey, BCG and Bain.


You can see that INSEAD and Chicago have pretty low "lowest" salaries which interestingly correlates directly with the % of international placement. perhaps the graduates in both cases went to emerging economies for lower paying jobs?

The table below does not format properly - if you are unable to read it completely, please open this PDF file that contains the same table.

The raw data used - all currency in $


INSEAD

Columbia

Chicago GSB

MIT Sloan

Darden

Ross

Program Length (Years)

1

1.5-2

2

2

2

2

Class size

885 (~2 x 450)

711

560

375

304

426

INSEAD is bigger than Ross and Darden combined or more than twice MIT

Recruitment % outside home country

90%

NA

20%

3.8%

NA

8.5%

Mean base salary ($)

116,200

NA

103,000

107,990

100,309

99,265

Median Salary

115,200

100,000

100,000

110,000

NA

95,000

Median Sign On bonus

23,500

30,000

25,000

NA

NA

20,000

Max Salary

360,000

300,000

167,000

161,800

168,000

135,000

Min Salary

19,500

46,500

22,000

65,000

58,500

43,000

INSEAD's highest/lowest variances are probably because it places many in high wage West Europe (UK, Germany) and in low wage countries (China, India). Part of the higher base for INSEAD could be due to the stronger euro/pound.

Biggest employer

McK (70)

McK (42)

McK (33)

McK (27)

NA

McK (13)

Consulting %

39.0%

21.1%

30.0%

37.2%

21.0%

31.0%

Finance %

28.0%

56.0%

24.4%

15.4%

31.0%

24.6%

Industry %

33.0%

26.9

45.6%

47.4%

48.0%

44.4%

INSEAD number for McKinsey excludes existing sponsored students. It's interesting to note that Chicago and Columbia are more skewed towards finance/industry than INSEAD is towards consulting. If INSEAD has to be called “Consulting school" then are Chicago and MIT "Industry schools" and is Columbia a "Finance” school?

PE/VC Median Salary

135,000

125,000

100,000

NA

108,167*

NA

PE/VC # selected**

46

40

28

NA

9

NA

Big-3 consulting #

123

61

64

70

NA

33

Big-3 as % class-size***

13.9%

8.6%

11.4%

18.7%

NA

7.7%

I added PE/VC just for kicks because people are so excited about these fields. I think these PE/VC numbers will change substantially year to year.

Many state that "INSEAD numbers to top 3 consulting schools is inflated because actually many of them are already sponsored from those schools." The data above, for INSEAD, EXCLUDES those sponsored.

* Not available – taken for finance general

**approximate calculation using % - numbers may not be very accurate

***This number is not fully accurate because a certain number outside the hired # are also part of the same companies. But it’s just to give a relative idea. INSEAD does have quite a few M/B/B within the class.

Biggest Finance Employer

Barclays (15)

Citi (24)

Lehman (19)

Lehman (9)

NA

Citi (9)

Google

7

4

5

8

NA

4

Apple

0

NA

5

NA

NA

NA

Avg entering age

29

28

28

28

28

28

Another interesting observation - people say INSEAD is for those much older. INSEAD is a 1 year program as compared to US 2 year -- this should mean that the average graduating age for US schools and INSEAD is same at 30

Offers 3 mo Post Grad

92.0%

95.6%

?

97.2%

97.0%

?

This is an area where INSEAD could do better - regardless of what reasons lie behind the 92% vs. the 95+ for US schools. I also feel (without having delved into it deeper) that the top US schools seem to have a larger number of companies and niche companies on campus as opposed to INSEAD - a topic for another post perhaps

I won’t get into a lengthy “deductive” commentary from the above numbers. You can draw your own conclusions or deductions, or if you have something interesting to share - leave a comment for everyone's benefit.


But what you can see in general is INSEAD compares well with the best of US schools, and in spite of being the biggest of the above lot, and pretty much having no access to the biggest MBA market and the largest single economy in the world – the US. I sometimes wonder how things could change when INSEAD brand picks up in the US. The school recently opened a marketing office in New York to push the brand.If we could get more US corporations to pay attention to INSEAD. That would be very interesting.


When attempting to get an MBA, it's important to ask yourself what you really want and tune down common held notions and spend some time looking deeper into details and you might find surprising results. Each school in the above list, whether Chicago, INSEAD, Columbia, MIT, Kellogg, Ross - is a terrific school with specific characteristics and strength -and they all compare well with each other. It's sort of a reaffirmation that if you are from a solid institution, you are likely to do well no matter where you are from.


With this data, the real differentiators sort of come down to

  1. Whether US is the desired, principal choice of work location*

  2. Opportunity cost and career-switching** options of 1-year @ INSEAD vs. 2-year program

  3. The kind of experience desired through the program – highly international vs. US-centric


*It is not easy to get a job in US from INSEAD – and it gets especially hard if you’re not a permanent resident or US citizen. Brand perception in the US is also weaker, so it takes more time and effort if you go outside the traditional blue chips/finance and consulting companies. The visa issues are the major stumbling block for the rest of those desiring to go to US, and this keeps many recruiters away.

**For finance switchers, INSEAD, especially the July promotion, makes it hard due to lack of internships.

Addressing specific questions


Isn’t INSEAD is a big MBA factory and therefore bad?


I don’t see how having about 800 of your class/year mates every year getting into top companies around the world (and you having access to a big alumni base) is a bad thing! Look at it this way, the INSEAD alumni grows at about 10 times the rate of IMD in Europe every year, and about three times that of LBS. It can’t be bad. In the same reasoning – Harvard and Wharton are US MBA factories, Google is an engineer dump-house, McKinsey is a consulting crap mill, P&G is a marketing sweatshop. You get the drift. When the institution is good, size is an advantage, not a disadvantage. It is not that you will sit in a classroom with 800 people. While you can have small groups and classes in a big school, you cannot magically have the large network and resources of a big school if you are not from one.


With 92% post-MBA recruitment numbers INSEAD is behind US schools, right?


Yes, it is. INSEAD should do better here. The only way this is a deal breaker is if you go into the school with the presumption that you will be one who falls into the 4% gap. But then, if you thought that way, you probably also worry that you would be one of those 3% in MIT Sloan who do not have a job 3 months after graduation.


But isn’t INSEAD Singapore a worse institution compared to INSEAD France? Am I doomed for eternity if I land up in INSEAD Singapore?


You really have no idea how INSEAD works, So I wrote something to address the INSEAD Singapore confusion - so read it here and this INSEAD Singapore vs. Fontainebleau post should help you understand the structure better.


Summary


There - that ends a "graphical" comparison how different schools look side-by-side. We could get into all sorts of details, but a numerical highlight is a good indicator of how schools fare finally. I believe in the strength of recruitment (quality of companies, opportunities available, compensation to graduates, alumni strength) as an excellent indicator to a school's value, reputation and brand - which in turn drives the best applicants to go there. You can see this evidence when you also include Harvard, Wharton and Stanford.


Coming next

INSEAD vs. Wharton - yeah! actually it's not a "vs." but more of how the two schools stand side-by-side on the broad metrics. You can see for yourself how strong Wharton is when it comes to recruiting (and whether it really is a finance school) - and it blends well with the argument of better the school's reputation among companies, the more impressive the recruitment looks. But wait, you'll also be pleasantly surprised to see how we hold against Wharton as well.


For comments and criticism

Given that I was looking at 6 reports, there may be little mistakes here and there, please point them to me if you are as "slacked" as I am and managed to spend time cross-checking my numbers.


Any helpful "my school is particularly good at" comments are very welcome - they will help readers understand the strength of specific programs much better. If you found some interesting insights from the data presented here, or if you dug something else interesting, please share them as well.


Any comments along the lines of "you suck...your/their school sucks..or this school sucks..but EIU ranking says" will simply be removed. I prefer to use numbers as presented by schools themselves. If you disagree completely with my correlation of recruitment strength with school strength, then this post was not for you and you can't really change my mind - there's a lot of evidence out there.


June 10, 2008

Apologies for the delay ;) (not really)

update: The post did get published today, but there are some lousy blogger formatting problems (that don't show up in edit more), so I need to fix them. So later today..

Yes, I got mails as well, I know some are waiting for that INSEAD and the US B-schools post. Just looking at data from multiple schools (I finally used Chicago GSB, Columbia, MIT Sloan, Darden and Ross) takes a little while and I was doing it little by little each day. It's pretty much done and should be posted tomorrow. Just don't send me parcel bombs because there was nothing "revelationary" in it :)

But for those curious, I took a shot at INSEAD vs. Wharton - not "vs." in a bad way, but in a friendly way. That comes later in a separate post. Now if you'll excuse me, I actually have some course work to do and I really should graduate with all courses passed... I also have a lot of traveling to do, and partying to do (I missed the Montmelian ball), and I also need to spend 2 hours by the river side near my house - it's gorgeous.

June 09, 2008

How the INSEAD dual campus /Singapore Fontainebleau structure works

Just as a complement to my previous post on how this works,

  1. When you apply, you specify a campus (Singapore or Fonty) of choice. It's not guaranteed though in majority of cases you get your first preference.
  2. You do the first 2 periods (i.e P1 and P2) in the starting campus
  3. A lot of people switch campus in p3 for 1 period, and return to their original campus in P4
  4. Those who are interested in recruitment in a certain region will be in that region campus for P4 and P5. Typically many travel from Singapore to Fonty for P4 and P5. Some from Fonty go to Singapore in P4/5 for recruitment targeted to Asia.
  5. Once recruitment is over in P4 (in most cases), many from Singapore travel to Fonty for P5 so they can graduate with the rest of the class.
  6. Graduation ceremonies are held in both campuses - the Fonty ceremony is obviously much bigger. Many travel from Singapore to Fonty just for graduation as well (it is allowed and possible)
In my case, P1, P2, P3 - Singapore. P4, P5 - Fonty
Other sample patterns are

P1, 2 - Singapore, P3 - Fonty, P4,5 Singapore
P1, 2 - Singapore, P3 - Fonty, P4 - Wharton, P5 - Fonty

How you mix it depends on how adventurous you are. But it all works seamlessly and it's surprisingly flexible. You decide which campus you want to be in, when in P2. But it can be changed.

This year, the rush to come to Singapore in P3 from Fonty was so high they had to put a wait list. Typically everyone who wants to go to Fontainebleau from Singapore gets to go (large campus, more capacity).

So, that's that about the dual campus structure. And here are a couple of pics of the beautiful river side walk near my house...its fantastic when the weather is good. Can't do this in Singapore.




June 08, 2008

INSEAD Singapore vs. Fontainebleau / Fonty

INSEAD Singapore vs. Fontainebleau / Campus comparisons Singa vs. Fonty

When researching INSEAD, there is always the question of “Fonty” vs. “Singapore.” The dual campus structure confuses many prospective applicants, and there is often misinformation on how it actually works. I wrote a long post on INSEAD Singapore to cover those misconceptions. This post is more about my impressions on how they compare – it’s been long overdue.

I started in Singapore, spent 6 months on the Singapore campus, and then moved to Fontainebleau in “P4” (the 4th of the 5 2-month terms) and will be completing my course here in Fontainebleau (called hereafter as a “Fonty”)

So, getting straight to business, here are my impressions and contrasts based on my personal experience.

Initially setting up

Singapore

Fontainebleau

  • Super easy, efficient and quick

  • Big, fancy apartments close to school

  • Easy to travel – economical taxis, buses, trains

  • Fantastic airport access 25 minutes from school

  • Really simple initial immigration procedure – you get your entry visa online after filling a simple online form!

In a nutshell? Easy.

  • Painful to find a place – language barrier can be a real hassle for all initial setup work

  • Houses spread all around – big chateaus, quaint and pretty little houses, studios. People stay in Fonty and in villages surrounding

  • Commuting is painful without a car. A car is very necessary to do anything.

  • CDG isn’t a great airport and it’s in Paris

  • Some nationalities need to take a French visa, fill up French forms even in Singapore (!), but it’s not really painful. Takes about a week if you do from Singapore. I’ve read some difficult stories for those applying from elsewhere, but they may be exceptions. Getting a carte-de-sejour is a pain (you can avoid it if you’re staying for less than 6 months)

In a nutshell, not easy!

Campus First Impressions

  • Compact, modern and sleek

  • Not much of a “campus” but more like a well designed exec-center

  • Closed break-out rooms are nicer

  • Lockers are much better

INSEAD Singapore photos
  • Feels like a campus – big

  • Gorgeous especially when the weather is good

  • Bigger, nicer library

  • Crappy little lockers. Change them!

INSEAD Fontainebleau Photos

Campus Life

  • Smaller initial start size on campus means you get to know lot more people

  • City style living – so most people go out together for clubs, bars, events, barbecues – the “whole class” is invited

  • Much larger so groups get formed

  • Different living style – Chateau parties, small “get- together” events

  • Everything is on a larger scale

Travel

  • Sunny tropics and beaches! Malaysia, Bali, other Indonesian areas, Micronesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, India, Hong Kong, China

  • Attractions of Europe (weather permitting, seriously!) – France, UK, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal..

Teaching/Student mix

  • More than 70% of the class switches campus and does terms on both – student mix is exactly the same. If someone goes around saying something else, they’re misinformed, it’s that simple.

  • Superstar professors in both campuses – many professors switch campuses in terms. Fonty is bigger so more electives. In P5, majority of the class lands up in Fonty for the graduation.

Recruitment

  • Companies have a greater slant towards positions in Asia

  • Smaller number of companies on campus (keep in mind the number of students in Singapore during recruitment period is also much smaller)

  • Note that jobs are open to students in both campuses – it’s common. But physical presence on campus is less in Singapore

  • Greater slant towards Europe/UK

  • Bigger career fair, more on-campus events

  • Proximity to London makes it easier for those interested in recruiting for London

Living expenses

Interestingly, it is possible to balance the additional rental expense and eating out in Singapore with the extra living cost in France. For me, the monthly cost in both places remained approximately the same.

Bottom line

The INSEAD experience is incomplete if you do not do both campuses. They’re both very different experiences and both amazing in what you can do in the few months. Think of it this way: It’s like going to another building on campus to study (similar professors, same course, same friends) except that this other building is in another continent. No other school I know has anything like this – and this is not like an exchange program. It’s an experience that is hard to describe but works extremely well.

Oh, BTW, compared to Singapore, the weather in Fonty sucks.
But then, you won't get to walk by the beautiful idyllic riversides in Singapore

June 06, 2008

random post of randomness

We have the Montmelian ball coming up tomorrow..it's going to be fun. In other news - Gmail opened up experimental features today, it's about time. iPhone 2.0 is expected to be announced on Monday - I hope to own one once I start my job.

And I have many free days from next week => more travel. Southern France, this time. And then it's time for the big grad trip...

Almost 2 years ago, I made my first post, it was the beginning of deciding to do GMAT.

June 05, 2008

INSEAD July 2008 - countdown to graduation


In 4 weeks we graduate, back to real life. I'm going to really miss this. On September 18th 2006 I finalized my school choices. And here I am, about to graduate from one (assuming I don't flunk any of my elective..naah..can't happen)

June 04, 2008

Prospective INSEAD applicants/profile evaluation - how to

This post is a brief guideline on how to ask me for a profile evaluation - you will save your time and mine, and hopefully actually get something useful instead of a generic "you have a chance" response. In particular, please avoid "hey dude, I got 690 in GMAT will I get INSEAD?".

Content desired

  1. Tell a little about yourself. I'd like to read a personal email, and am more likely to respond. Remember I'm not an admissions consultant!
  2. Put your latest GMAT score, years of full time experience, nationality.
  3. Mention international experiences if you have.
  4. Mention your most significant" extra-curricular or community achievement. being a member of a foosball club when you were 12 years old doesn't count.
  5. Mention perhaps the best leadership example at work if possible.
  6. Your motivation for INSEAD specifically
Presentation
  1. The best way to ask a question is to make it answerable in a sentence.
  2. Avoid asking me very specific % breakdowns (e.g. # of British who were bankers who are going to PE in UK or US) - I wouldn't know!
  3. Don't ask me to make choices for you! I cannot tell you "where to apply" - do your research.
Research

I've written quite a bit on preparations and research. Many of your questions are probably answered in my blog - here are a fewposts that I think are useful to potential applicants.
  1. This post specifically gives many pointers as part of the application. useful
  2. You can read this to understand GMAT relevance, especially for post INSEAD consulting choices
  3. My stand on choosing business schools is here, and it hasn't changed.

The post on US B-schools contrasted with INSEAD is coming soon - be patient :) I already see queries hitting my analytics - "INSEAD vs. Chicago GSB", "INSEAD vs. MIT Sloan" - the post is not really a "vs." so don't expect a shooting war!

And here are couple of pics from a recent trip..



June 02, 2008

to N

N,

stay strong. keep moving. hope for the best.

wishes,
-n


Who am I and Where am I headed?

I answered the question of "Who is necromonger" long ago with this post and at that time, where I would be headed was a big question in my mind. I also pondered at the difficulty of getting US jobs post INSEAD

Anyway, much has happened, after getting the choice of working here,


and also here,


I am now officially headed here!


more about my specific recruitment lessons and statistics will come soon.

Teaser Trailer :) - US B-schools and INSEAD

US B-schools are, without a doubt, a destination for a vast majority of applicants. This is not without a reason - there are several terrific schools, the US market is the largest MBA market in the world, and for many US is the dream destination. Increasingly, however, people are also beginning look at other compelling options. While INSEAD and LBS have established solid reputation in the general MBA world, a lot of people still suffer from having to decide whether to study in INSEAD or, say, a US school.

Many discussions also lead to some school "stereotypes" that are often repeated, never questioned, and finally accepted as reality. And for me, this means another nice topic to go after -- is INSEAD really that behind US schools - especially as a career option (given that a good post MBA career is the most important thing for most graduates)? Is it even dumb to compare INSEAD to a US top 3-10 regardless of what FT says? There are many who take US news rankings as the "best ranking" and this ranking excludes (obviously) non-US schools.

So, in my supreme slackery in between travel, I fired up my Windows Movie Maker 2.0 to check out how I could make short movies -- and instead, I created a trailer for my upcoming post.. now don't get all worked up about the trailer and the John Williams music...just chill :)


May 28, 2008

Major update: the INSEAD vs. HKUST 2007 numbers

A few days ago, I published a post comparing INSEAD vs. HKUST MBA as a response to some raging Internet debates. The data I used for INSEAD was from 2006 (comparing to 2007 for HKUST), but I now have limited permission to use some data (thanks!), which I have.

You should find it useful, so head over there.

May 27, 2008

Recruitment - Management Consulting Interviews, my impression

As part of my recruiting saga, I covered the initial recruitment impressions and for those specifically interested management/strategy consulting, I covered how strategy consulting recruitment is done at INSEAD.

This post is a short write-up on how my own consulting interviews experience was, with no names taken for obvious reasons.

  1. It takes a lot of time to do it the right way - meet the consultants on chat sessions, go to the presentations, go to the cocktails, go to the mock interview sessions, write the cover letters.. while many speculate where one could take chances ("this is not important/that is not necessary") - I took no chances. Where possible, I put the necessary effort.
  2. It is very hard to figure out why you get rejected without an interview, and why you did get selected. I saw no pattern in mine at all! In one amusing case - the company in question rejected my application without an interview. Later, they were conducting case interview workshops and I attended one - and since it was among my earlies mocks, I did not do too well. So the interviewer said "if you did this in the real interview, you would be rejected" - I almost laughed, you can't reject me twice ;) In another case the company emailed me asking to apply because they wanted to talk to me. And when I did, they rejected me!
  3. Case interviews need practice - I'm sure there are few superstars who get it all right without practice, but most I know practiced. It takes a certain mindset and approach to do it right. And I also realized that it is very hard to be consistent in every interview - there were times I sailed through and interview, and then bomb miserably in the next. I am not writing a post on how to do case interviews - there are tons of resources out there, research them.
  4. Overall, majority of consulting companies did manage to keep up to their schedules, and in many cases made offers quickly as promised. Overall, in particular, I should say McKinsey is very impressive how they do this whole process in INSEAD (no, I'm not going to McKinsey). There were those, as usual, who sent rejects online, never sent a mail, or we figured out we got dinged after we saw the interview lists on the boards!
  5. Getting that initial connection with your interviewer is, indeed, important.
And then, *sigh*, there is always this elevator ride time after a bad interview....



Just as a side thought, today a blog visitor had some questions to me about consulting after INSEAD and he mentioned that friends/acquaintances from a couple of US schools mentioned that INSEAD "inflates" the numbers because a large number of them are already from those consulting companies going back. Oh boy. Here we go again. Guess it's time for another numbers post! (in the next day or so.. I'm slacking out, seriously!)

just as an extension to the debate of top-US vs. INSEAD, say INSEAD and Chicago GSB - there is sometimes a feel that there is a big gap between the two. So in the next 2 weeks, I'm running a simple comparison of Chicago and Ross with INSEAD just so you can judge by facts rather than by "a friend of a friend of mine said that in 1967"

The weather outside is miserable, which explains me writing blog posts. But thankfully I had a great 4 days with fantastic weather when in New York. It's OK, I don't need to cry myself to sleep.

My recruitment/placement story - prologue

I was just fooling around with excel to see how I did during recruitment - I will share the graphs with you in a day or two, and the exercise reminded me how time consuming and painstaking the entire exercise can be, especially if you need to do it right.

In the last few days I've had to switch time zones and travel between UK, US and France - and I need sleep. Simple, uncomplicated, "won't-wake-to-an-alarm-in-the-morning" and "won't-have-to-pack-again" kind of sleep.




May 23, 2008

ROI / MBA - revisiting my thoughts

Long ago, in March of 2007 even before I started INSEAD, I made a post on ROI (return on investment) of MBA. I was not a fan of ROI arguments then, and now, when I am close to finishing my MBA, I am even more convinced of the futility of making ROI calculations, and specially if you are graduating from top programs.

Part of doing the MBA is the acceptance that there is a risk in that investment, and the confidence that in many cases it pays off handsomely. For some, it happens early, and for some, a little late. In my case - my post MBA salary is about two hundred and fifty times*** my first salary out of engineering school! If every decision of my career was based on some strange ROI calculation and if I stayed away from INSEAD because I felt my fee was too high, I would have simply missed a chance I would get in very, very few other places. I have to be pretty clear that it was because I was at INSEAD that I got my opportunity.

So, just to reassert - if you're going to one of the top programs

a) There is a high chance you will do just fine - think long term
b) You have a career that spans 30 years or more ahead of you and not 3 years. Don't think in terms of 3 years.
c) Myopic ROI calculations are dumb, that's what they are.


***before you get all curious and excited about this dramatic assertion - take a step back and do a case analysis!

salary-ratio = new-salary/old-salary; either new-salary is very high, or old-salary is very low. what could be the key drivers behind old-salary very low? perhaps I graduated long ago, perhaps I graduated in a country where beginning wages are very low? perhaps my first salary was an unusually bad salary due to specific conditions? any of these (or more) could be true :) so let's not get too worked up over a ratio without understanding what's behind it. Nevertheless, I wrote that just to illustrate how sometimes over time our calculations become absurd. When I graduated, I never, ever imagined I would be earning that many multiples of my beginning base. But it happened.



May 17, 2008

INSEAD vs. HKUST MBA (is INSEAD Singapore an Asian School?)

update: May 24th - I've updated a few unofficial numbers from the 2007 report soon to be published on INSEAD web site. All updated data is in this color and in italics. If the final report on the web is a little different, don't be too surprised, just point it to me!

update: June 11 - the INSEAD official 2007 career report is out, see it here.

This is going to be a one-off unusual post, because I honestly know/knew very little about HKUST MBA - which is the MBA program of Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. You might say - what the heck is this post about? Why INSEAD vs. HKUST ?! What happened to INSEAD vs. LBS?

Recently, not once - but several times - I received mails and thread-links from blog readers about comparisons between these schools, especially between INSEAD Singapore and HKUST, and that HKUST is the best in Asia and trumps INSEAD, and repeated posts about how INSEAD sucks apparently compared to HKUST MBA and so on. I was very intrigued and checked a few of these posts. What I found was some assertions about how HKUST is Asia focused, is fantastic and that "INSEAD Singapore" is a lousy place and doesn't compare with "INSEAD France" and similar posts. I can understand the enthusiasm for their school being top notch, but really - I don't get the idea of comparing by needlessly dragging some other school and bashing it. What has INSEAD got to do with "best Asian school comparison"?...hmm..so I figured that I have some free time, so let me get to my favorite method -

Let's look at numbers, people! why speculate endlessly?

But before that - one major clarification. INSEAD is not a "Asian" school. There is no "INSEAD Singapore" as a separate entity. Comparisons that mention "INSEAD Singapore" and anything else is plain stupid. It's just that INSEAD happens to have a campus in Singapore to get better access to Asia. There are many misconceptions about "INSEAD Singapore" vs. "INSEAD France" - so please take a moment to read this INSEAD Singapore FAQ. I've covered quite a bit on this topic. People seem to make statements with no clue as to how INSEAD really works. Now. Here's my methodology which ultimately focuses on career results - as that is what this whole debate seems to be about.

  1. No upfront bias - I know pretty much nothing about HKUST, so I will neither praise or bash it, it may be a fantastic finance school better than INSEAD and Wharton and everyone else. So I'll rely on some figures straight out of their website.
  2. No subjective statements - No "he said that, she said this" or "finance there is best in world" or whatever. These are too subjective - the end result of anything world class is resultant world class numbers - i.e. careers, nobels, formal rankings (with the burden of whatever subjectivity they have) etc.
  3. A simple side-by-side comparison and highlight of what the numbers say. Nothing more, nothing less. No tricky deductions.
  4. I will focus on the career report as the prime measure - after all, that is what finally sums up comprehensively the value a school provides. The best schools get great people, create a great atmosphere, and then manage to provide their students great opportunities and a strong network. So I'll work with some of the categories HKUST's own career report focuses on.
  5. I will be using the 2007 Career Report for HKUST and the 2006 Career Report for INSEAD (the 2007 report, while not out officially yet, is better than 2006 in almost all respects, but unfortunately I cannot use it). Once the 2007 report for INSEAD comes out, I will update the relevant figures. I will be using general average salaries wherever possible instead of getting into regional bias. Keep in mind I'm comparing 2 schools that are equivalent (as claimed), so all comparisons must be fair. Update: I have updated the data with 2007 numbers. The official report is not out yet (just printing)
  6. I will not use any numbers from INSEAD career report that do not have an equivalent figures for HKUST.
  7. I will use the 2007 HK$ to US$ exchange rate of 7.8 HK$ = 1 US$ (using data from HKUST page). In 2006, the US$ was stronger than it is today, but I will still use the older $ figures reported in the INSEAD 2006 report. In general, I will multiply the INSEAD 2006 $ numbers by 1.03 (3%)to provide a minor adjustment for both overall salary increase and $ depreciation.
I hope you will see that I am being as fair and objective as I can possibly be! Average annual Salary *Note: The HKUST report does not mention if the salary is inclusive of bonus or excluding. The number for INSEAD excludes joining bonus.

HKUST (2007) INSEAD (2006/7) Notes
Average Salary 66,800$ 116,200$
109,700$
75% higher
Average Salary (outside HK/China) 57,202$ -
no such classification for INSEAD
Average Salary within HK/China 59,000$ 104,000$
100,200$ (APAC complete)
INSEAD APAC includes China, India (accounts for lower wages in average).
Median annual Salary

HKUST (2007) INSEAD (2007) Notes
Median Salary 60,324$ 115,000$
110,004$
-
Median Salary (outside HK/China) 51,029$ 110,004$ no such classification for INSEAD
Geographic Locations of work after MBA

HKUST (2007) INSEAD (2007)
Dominant Geography 78% (HK 68% & China 10%) no info yet
23% (UK)
Rest of world 22% 77%
Demographics/Network

update:A reader informs that I should mention 17,000 INSEAD MBA and not 32,000 as it includes EMBA. I'm not too sure about that - the HKUST MBA reported number is 3000, but its class size is ~60 (as mentioned here) and the school was established in 1991. That means total MBA number should be ~60*17 = 1020. Then the number 3000 probably includes exchange and exec-MBA, in which case the comparative should be 32,000 for INSEAD. I will keep this unless I have a better access to fact.


HKUST (2007) INSEAD (2006/7)
Country of Origin 53% (China & HK) 10% (US/India)
Nationalities (~) in a class 20 60
Network 3000 in 38 countries, majority in HK/China (mentioned on site) 32,000 in 150 countries
Career Distribution

HKUST (2007)INSEAD (2006/7)
Finance 43% 29% 28%
Consulting/Services 14% 35% 39%
Industry 43% 36% 33%
MBA Ranking 2008/7

HKUST MBA INSEAD MBA
FT 2008 Global Ranking 17 6
EIU (good comical value) 20 17
Some company recruitment observations
  • HKUST report does not say who hired how many - so I cannot compare top employers in sectors
  • Bain, BCG or McKinsey (apart from BTO) did not hire in HKUST. These big 3 hired 123 (excluding former consultants) from INSEAD.
  • For tech enthusiasts - Google recruits globally from INSEAD (7 in 2007), but Google China in HKUST
  • Microsoft HK recruited from HKUST, however Microsoft does not recruit on campus from INSEAD. Microsoft, come to INSEAD, you're losing people to Google ;)
  • Posters about HKUST mention that it is a fantastic way into iBanks. What I'm curious is that 2006/7 INSEAD Finance average base (~median) was about 113,000$ 119,000$ (not including the bonuses). However, in HKUST 2007, with 43% of class going in finance (and presumably a large number of them into ibanks as claimed), why is the overall average ~60,000 US$ in HK? Shouldn't it be over 100K?
  • INSEAD is about 13 times bigger than HKUST, with job spreads across a wide geographic range (people went to 350 companies in 55 countries to work in 2007), and has higher salaries across all sectors. I find that intriguing.. with mostly (presumably) high compensation, I would think the standard deviation should be low for HKUST and the average should be higher.
Some comments on how going to HKUST is a much better bet than the poor brand INSEAD is in Asia.

All I can tell you is we're seeing a healthy interest from top companies that want to hire INSEAD grads into China and HK. APAC average and median in 2007 are comparable to levels in Europe and US - and compares, for e.g. to Stanford. Why anyone would be eager to bring INSEADers into Asia with such salaries especially for a crappy school with no brand beats me ;)

update: If you are curious, here is a detailed side-by-side of INSEAD vs. (alongside) Chicago GSB, Columbia, MIT Sloan, Darden and Ross.

So there. That ends my first-and-last post on this topic. I just couldn't help it. If you are a reader of this blog and read posts in some threads going over the same debate, please feel free to link this there! And for those who love HKUST, it's all good but keep us out of the debate and trashing us. Pick LBS next time, really ;) ;)

PS - for those who wish to comment. If your comments point out to statistical mistakes, I will make necessary amendments with credit to you. If it is a non-numbers based argument I will neither respond nor update my post. If it is a rant, I will remove it if offensive. If it is a gentle yet persuasive argument, that will help all readers.